how seeking adventure can improve creativity | dan marino

Dan Marino | Krumware

Hannah: Hello everyone and welcome back to DWGTV. I’m Hannah and today I’m joined by Dan Marino. Dan works here with us in SOCO and he works for Krumware and also does some freelance design work on his own. Today it’s going to be a different kind of chat. We’re talking about how adventure can really improve your creativity. Regardless of what position you have, what kind of job you have, if you are interested in being creative this is a good talk for you. 

Can you just introduce yourself, Dan, and share a little bit about what you do at Krumware as well as freelancing? 

Dan: I’m Dan Marino. I’m the creative director at Krumware. At Krumware we do enterprise web applications and software design and so for me most days that’s working with our small design team, leading us to problem solve. We’re doing a lot of UI/UX design. I engage a lot with clients and product management as well as a little bit of project management and then working on hand with our larger development and engineering team to kind of push those designs into fruition. That’s the Krumware side of it. 

Then I do a load of freelance design work. It tends to be a little more focused on branding, identity, and it’s some fun stuff that kind of fills the passion bucket. 

Hannah: Has this always been something that you’ve wanted to do professionally? 

Dan: Yeah. I went to school for design; I went to design school. And before that, I think it was probably junior year of high school that I took a bunch of art classes all throughout schooling in general; advanced art classes. In 8th grade, you’re making like a really nice paper mache or something. In high school, I had a really influencing art teacher, “What’s up Mr. Drews.” He pushed in that direction to be able to say, “Wow this is actually a career. Graphic design exists.” At that point in time, it was like, “I want to design snowboards,” which I did at one point in time and then was like, “Alright, well that’s it. Let’s find something else to do.” 

Yeah, it’s always been that. And like I said I went to design school and then everything has just kind of evolved. Every position, every project or if it’s something else it’s always evolving and changing and moving into another aspect of it. 

Hannah: It keeps it interesting. 

So, you have a lot going on in your life between Krumware, your freelance work and everything else that you’re passionate about. I know you have your home renovations and also snowboarding and all of that. What is a regular day in the life of Dan look like? 

Dan: I haven’t been on as my game in the last couple of months. But a couple of months ago I was, unfortunately, waking up from 5:30-6:00 am in the morning. I had no other time to get things done that I needed to get done. But nothing is going to distract me at 5:00 in the morning. Nobodies on Facebook, nobodies posting, and so I was like, “Alright great.” So, I’d wake up at 5:00, walk the dog; well my fiancé, Justina, does most of that in the morning at least. I would do a bunch of my freelance work early in the morning. Even now, even though I’m not really as persistent about my schedule being up that early at this very moment, having some creative warm-up in the morning for me is pivotal. I normally come into Krumware at 10-6 pm. So that’s pretty late in the morning to be coming in. I’m not going to sleep until 10 in the morning. For me, getting some sort of creative time. Justina leaves for work at about 7:30-8:00 in the morning. And then I have a little bit of time for myself to decompress whether it’s doing some creative warm-up, allowing myself to explore creatively, or do some research. And then when I’m at my best, meditating is crucial, and I’m getting back to that because it’s just so much stuff going on lately.

And then normally in Krumware hours, it’s any given thing from 10-8 pm, it’s just go go go. Bouncing around, problem-solving, whiteboarding. I go through whiteboard dry-erase markers like it’s my job. I go home at about 8 pm, I haven’t been training or going to the gym as regularly either; there’s just so much on the plate. But spending some time with Justina and our dog and then getting to sleep at a regular hour. If I can. On the weekends it’s a lot harder on motivations too. 

Hannah: What is a regular hour for you? 

Dan: If we’re in bed by 9:45-10 pm that’s pretty good. I’ll normally spend like 30 minutes or so watching tv in bed. A bad habit but whatever. 

Hannah: Everyone does it. I think. 

And a very important question, what kind of dog do you have?

Dan: English Cream Golden Retriever. 

Hannah: What does creativity mean to you? 

Dan: That’s such a tough or loaded question. It reminds me of a question in some sort of video we had to do in design school and I remember mine standing out. “What’s your style?” I think it is what it was. I remember I was like 20 years old so I was like, “It’s Chris Bradshaw with the two sides,” like I said some sort of snowboard trick and very styled snowboarder. And it’s funny because it still kind of applies a little bit. Like creativity is in everything, at least for me, and I think in everyone as well and I think we may just not realize it from day-to-day. I think it’s not necessarily like, “Oh you draw nice pretty pictures in your sketchbook; that’s creativity. I think it’s everything down to simple tasks and how people go about it. Maybe you don’t necessarily rationalize it or run through it. Like going through the grocery store and prioritizing your list and figuring out the best way. Or if you’re working on a house project or a renovation project, “Oh this is going to work let me do this,” or “Oh that’s not going to work let me try this.” For me it’s problem-solving; it’s elevated a little bit more and less like, “Oh you do really cool-styled hand typography. But there is an artform in making something like that look really, “Oh man you made that look easy.” 

Hannah: That’s actually a really cool answer and something that I wouldn’t have thought of. As a strategist, I think that I’m logical but of course, there’s creativity in that. 

Dan: Yeah. Or having to prioritize the lists. My day, working with Krumware and our team, my priority list gets changed, and I don’t even realize it. Or the scope of a project that I’m working on during the day of many projects’ changes. “Okay, that change means that it affects all of this in this product.” It gets exhausting if you do it that often. But yeah like I said going through the grocery store, “Oh let me go through aisle one and get my list together.” If you don’t, it could be a mess. 

Hannah: That’s a really cool way to think about it. 

So, snowboarding is a big part of your life, adventure, and all those good things. How has that really influenced your creative process and how you think as a creative? 

Dan: I’ve always been a snowboarder. And maybe not even necessarily snowboarding. When I was a little kid I used to ride BMX all the time. When I was 13-14, just seeing things with a different lens. “That’s not just a handrail to walk down the stairs to get to my car.” It was like, “Oh no that’s a handrail, that’s stairs, so I can bunny hop up.” And then as you progress on stuff it’s always changing. You’re always like, “Oh I’ve already accomplished this on that section of it. I’ve already gapped down it. I’ve already 360 degreed down it. What can I do now?” 

That ability to see things with a different lense was a really big gamechanger. Especially moving to art. “I’m riding BMX and doing graffiti,” in high school to seeing that that evolves at a certain point to be more on the problem-solving side of things. Like I said, it’s seeing with that different lens and being resourceful. For me, I remember always riding the same ledge behind the Walmart near my parent’s house when I was younger. I would do that for years, and it’s the same stuff. As I got better I would do different stuff on it or I would try different stuff. But just being able to be resourceful on that is super powerful and a super great skill; just a life skill in general. You know, being able to go to the grocery store, buy food and say, “Oh this is on sale, let me figure out how to make it because it’s cheap.” The same thing goes with restraints on design problems. “Hey, I have to use this typeface.” “Okay if you’re going to this typeface, then how can we utilize that and leverage that as opposed to it being just a damper and a total downer on that side of it?” I think that’s one thing. 

And then the lens itself comes with another metaphor of realizing that other people see with their own kinds of lenses. How people experience things differently and the knowledge of that helps me, my job and mostly in Krumware, of designing software for all users and more of a universal design. Realizing that different people see things with a different lens. Literally and figuratively. So, I do things like color blindness and accessibility and those kinds of things are kind of an eye-opener as well. I think that’s one way of it. 

I think there’s also a side of it two that with snowboarding comes a little bit of confidence and adventure and stuff. 

Hannah: Just being able to take the risks? 

Dan: Yeah and being able to push it and to know that, “After a certain point I’ve got to commit to this.” Whether that’s going into a pitch, going into a sales meeting, having a difficult conversation with a coworker. It could be anything. And I hate to say, “Fake It till You Make It,” because I don’t necessarily agree to it too much but that fact that like, “I’ve got to do this, or I have a task or I have a big project that I want to do,” and being able to say, “I got this. Let’s get after it and prepare fully to be able to get it done.” Those are probably two of the bigger things that snowboarding and adventuring as taught me.

Hannah: That’s so interesting. I mean you’re talking about snowboarding, BMX, and that kind of stuff that you were doing when you were little affecting your career years later. It’s so interesting to see how that is a life skill. 

Dan: Yeah it definitely is. I felt kind of weird at a certain point in time because I’m such a little kid when it comes down to it at heart but I’m still like, “This is who I am.” I’m 31 years old, but this is just who I am. There’s a podcast that came out recently called The Snowboard Project and it’s talking about industry leaders and snowboarders and marketing people and product designers and graphic designers in the industry and talking about pretty much how moving past the industry has formed their lives and stuff. It’s kind of weird, those little subcultures can have such a huge effect on how you’re raised. 

Hannah: And it’s cool that you made the connection there. 

I know this just from knowing you within SOCO, but would you define yourself as Type A? You seem very organized but you’re also very creative and you have a good mix of the left brain/right brain. How does that play into your creative process with you having a plan, you have timelines and project scopes with Chrome ware but also I know that can be limiting to a designer, so what does that look like for you?

Dan: And it’s funny too because I always go back and forth like, “Am I Type A? Like you’re creative but…”

Hannah: You’re an enigma. 

Dan: But you’re right, I do have a pretty solid plan in most cases. I can’t not go into it without a plan; that hurts. I have to have some sort of plan and something to go with, and so it’s always calculated. I’ve done a fair amount of skydiving, but I never got my license because I bought a house and that took up priority. But people are like, “Oh my gosh, that’s crazy. That’s insane.” And I’m like, “It’s not really insane. It’s calculated.” You look at all the checks and all the systems in place and all that kind of stuff and when you realize it from a far distance you don’t realize all of the preparation that goes into it. It seems crazy, but if you’re in it and you’re doing it, muscle memory, and you’re running through the process and procedures it’s actually pretty safe. For me that preparation kind of weird talking in between design and adventuring. If I go too far on one or the other you’ll have to sidetrack me back in, but it’s kind of physical prep, mental prep, and emotional prep. There’s more emotional prep then the adventuring side of it then there probably is in the design of it. However, I have shed tears over pixels before so it’s happened. 

A month ago, I was just in Lake Louise, Banff, Revelstoke, British Columbia, and Kicking Horse on a big snowboard trip. And I was solo. I went by myself, so it was already frightening. And I was riding all-new mountains. I had never ridden any of them and they were probably the biggest mountains I had ever been to. The night before it’s always like a ritual for me, especially somewhere new, where I’ll wax my boards. I used to work in a ski shop so it’s just a little bit therapeutic for me. But that’s some of the physical prep. I know the next day when I go into it, or somewhere new, or somewhere where I’m uncomfortable or somewhere where I may be pushing past that point. I know my gear is in check. I know I’m physically prepared. I’m ready to go on that aspect. So then it means, “Okay cool,” it’s a little bit anxiety-reducing for me. The same thing would probably be compared to the design end of things.

Kelsea, one of our designers, and I were in the conference room, whiteboarding something out and I was like, “I know we know this stuff. I know that we know that this does this, and this piece of the software is going to do this, and these are the rules, but I just want to have it down just so that we can check the box and say Yes we’ve done our due diligence. We’ve gotten the stuff. Okay now, let’s go on further and figure out what else we have to get done.” Or if we say, “Yes this button goes here; what does that effect?” So, there’s some physical prep there on that side of it but you have a plan and you have to make a plan to audible a little bit too. So yeah, I have a plan, I have these cards here, but they’re bullet points and they’re meant to go off the path. 

When I was I was in Lake Louise, I was like, “Oh yeah I’m going to go here, and take this line down here,” and immediately I go take it and I’m like, “Oh there’s a bunch of rocks here.” You have to have a couple back up plans and it’s not that you didn’t do your due diligence. Sometimes stuff just happens, or a client makes changes or you realize something halfway through where you’re like, “Oh man I didn’t think of that. We need to think about this a little bit further, throttle back and make sure we handle it the proper way.” I think I definitely have a plan, but I also have a plan for the plan to go off the rails, and probably a couple of other backup plans. I always like to say I keep an ace up my sleeve in some aspect but that’s probably a good way of trying to keep it in between both the design and the crazy adventure side of it. 

Hannah: I’m super Type A and I am not a risk-taker. You saying that skydiving isn’t scary. No that’s terrifying. But you describing it as being calculated like that makes sense and that’s more comforting for someone like me who likes to have that in place. 

Dan: And it’s funny. I meant to touch on some of that. The first solo skydive, yes I know all the checks in place, yes we did all of our three-ring checks, altimeter checks, gear checks and have two instructors on my side. But when you go step on the side of that plane and you hold on and you’re looking on the back of the wing, everything mentally and even, probably all the way through to the first two dozen jumps I have solo, but everything in your mind is saying “Red flag.” And there’s something to it that everything is saying, “No.” But in that phase, you still have to say, “Deep breath,” and you still have to perform. 

Same thing as coming in here. I was like, “Oh crap.” but it’s the same thing. You have to decompress, you still have to perform and get the job done. It’s a little bit more than just planning and prepping. But that side of it, there’s plenty of time where people are like, “Oh you don’t have fear during that kind of stuff,” when in reality I have the same amount of fear as everyone else. 

Hannah: It’s just learning to work through it.

Dan: Yeah. Muscle memory being like, “Hey this is going to be fine,” and just hoping that the physical check-in preparation is enough to ease yourself in that anxiety. 

Hannah: That’s a really cool metaphor. 

You just went on your big snowboarding trip and what is that like? Your travel? How has that affected your creative process? I know that you were talking earlier about seeing things through a different lens and understand that others see the world through their own lens. How has traveling really affected what you do? 

Dan: It definitely has. It’s nice because I work pretty hard; I work a lot of hours. So there’s got to be some sort of decompress. Especially with me to, I tend to pent-up that stress a little bit. I’m not really good. You’ve probably seen me walking back and forth to the coffee pot, breathing deep and stuff, and I don’t look like I’m having fun, but I swear I am. But yeah, I think it’s nice to have that time away to let things decompress and almost marinate a little bit. If you just keep grinding day in and day out you’re going to burnout. I used to work for a weight lifting company and learned a lot from those guys. A lot of them were former division athletes, had gone in NFL training camps. I learned a lot about that kind of stuff and some of the parts in that physical training was that you can’t just train and weight lift until you puke every single day. And the same aspect here. You can’t just let me work 24-hour days in a day. You have to put in the reps and you have to be able to work hard but at the same point in time, you also have to step away and be able to let that simmer. Be in the marinade for a little bit, come back and see how you see things a little bit differently. That’s one good way of putting it. 

Especially with the creative or design process. Creativity is going to hit you when it hits you. Those good sparks of moments. It’s not like, “Well, let me flip the switch.” I wish. If I could figure that out, man I’ll bottle that up and never tell anyone about it. But it doesn’t, which is unfortunate. The number of times in design school where I would just be housing away on hours and always in there till like four or five in the morning. It helped form great habits going forward, but then I learned a little bit of worker harder, and smarter and knowing when to cool the jets, and knowing that I need to balance out. 

And it doesn’t have to be full-blown travel. It could be a lap around the ballpark, or changing your routine. That kind of stuff is a huge side of it. I hung out with a guy, Matt, when I was in Revelstoke, and then Kicking Horse. In British Columbia, there tends to be a lot of Australians and Kiwis. They travel everywhere, which is awesome. It’s cool because not only am I seeing a bunch of cultures and people and influences and there’s a lot of poutine in Canada which is awesome. I love gravy fries. So everything from food to people to languages to accents. Matt was from England and is on a two-year work visa. I met him in Revelstoke and then he was driving to Kicking Horse the same day I was, so he was like, “Oh well fancy a beer and a pie mate and then we’ll go ride the next day.” And I was like, “Cool, sounds good Matt.” And we became best buds, but it’s just being able to talk to other people, learn from other people’s experiences. 

Again, everybody sees things with a different lens. Especially people that are unlike you. So to be able to experience that. And it’s crazy when it comes to creativity what will jog and spark that kind of stuff. To be able to keep yourself as worldly as possible, and I haven’t even traveled that much. There’s so much more I want to do. But I think it’s super important to be like, “Yes I am well-informed of other kinds of stuff.” And not only so that way if we have a meeting and have a sales pitch with somebody whose British. I can kind of relate, and also different topics and then even creative problem-solving. “Oh, I solved this problem somewhere else. Or different cultures or different ways…” 

Hannah: It just broadens how you think. 

Dan: And how design thinking really relates to some of that. So yeah, I think that’s probably a good one that’s super important for keeping that creativity sparked. 

Hannah: How do you make time for that and travel and knowing when you need to step away from the office. With you working so many hours, how do you prioritize that? 

Dan: I’m still pretty bad about it. My fiancé can tell you where she helps keep me in check a little bit. She does wellness coaching and stress management and stuff like, so on top of being the perfect person for me, plus work perks. But she helps keep me in check a little bit. But if there’s definitely some warning signs and some reds flags I’ll get working. But if I’m just grouchy and not that it’s a bad thing, but certain days or certain projects or certain tasks on certain projects where I’m just like, “Ahhhh.” Last summer we had a very large workload and I worked a lot. I just knew that “Okay, cool. I’ve shown up to work,” and I think I have a couple of different snowboarding backgrounds and desktops and I’m like, “Alright. That’s where I’ll be.” I could go southern hemisphere but I don’t have the means or money yet to do that during the summer. So, I’m like, “Okay I’ve got to wait until winter to take all of my trips.” Colin, my boss and the owner of Krumware, is pretty cool about me taking all of my time off in a matter of two months just to go snowboard. So that helps kind of prioritize it and keep that together. And then I have to plan a whole lot of work leaving. And I’ve got a good design team that keeps things in check. That’s really awesome to build a little bit of trust in them. 

Hannah: What advice would you give to a creative who’s looking to take their work to the next level. Take some more risks. Really just up level with what they’re doing. 

Dan: I think one of the reasons I’m probably a good snowboarder is that I fall a lot. Like I fall a lot. And now it’s to the point where when I fall now it doesn’t seem like I’m falling. But that’s a byproduct of me absolutely falling all the time. I think fail early and fail often is probably a good metaphor. We work in design sprints most of the time, so weekly sprints where this is our task for the week…it’s a modified sprint. It’s not exactly technical how Google Ventures talks about it. But it’s great because, at the beginning of the week, we do some research, figure out the problem we’re trying to solve or task we’re trying to handle. As the week goes on we’re solving or prototyping that problem and by the end of the, we’re validating it in some fashion. It’s different for different projects and things like that. But that methodology is really awesome, and that double backs on kind of an adventure or snowboarding. It doesn’t have to be snowboarding, it could be skateboarding or whatever. But if you’re falling a lot it means you’re pushing yourself enough. And you don’t want to keep learning how to backflips for three years and just, “I can’t get.” But I think being able to learn how to fall and being able to get back up and realizing that it’s not a big deal. Just like, “Okay cool. What did I learn from it? Okay, I need to do this. I need to do that.” Just keep going. 

That kind of lifelong learning and lifelong curiosity towards that I think is really beneficial. Specifically, towards the creatives but I think that’s anything. At least in my eyes, successful people are always driving to learn more. 

I think another beneficial thing is probably like, I mean for me, I busted my tail early on in the career. Which was great because it got me to a point where I was falling super often but again I probably worked too much. But I had the opportunity. I was single, I was living on my own, I could wake up at 3 in the morning and do a bunch of freelance work and play loud music. That was fine. So, I think doing that and really busting it early on is helpful because as you get older it’s a little bit more difficult with obligations and things like that. And probably going back to travel and experiencing as much as possible as soon as you can. And trips and explorations and adventures don’t have to be going on a plane or going somewhere super far away. And it doesn’t have to cost a lot either. There’s plenty of ways to do it cheaply. I do tons of stuff cheap. There’s a lot of great hostels and that kind of stuff. And it could be something as simple going to Congaree, Sesqui, let me grab my mountain bike and go to Harvison or a day trip to Asheville. There are so many trails up there. And again, for me, if I’m being in nature it’s just a recharge. 

And probably just pushing outside the comfort zone is probably the last thing that’s helpful. I mean skydiving, for sure, I didn’t end up getting and proceeding and getting to my license. I was like two jumps away, but I couldn’t sustain it. But the fact of knowing there are all these fears in place and I still have to learn that this is fine and to proceed anyways and still get the job done. I tell everyone that they need to skydive. Especially with solo stuff it’s that sense of confidence and that sense of reward and knowing that “Wow this was extremely difficult, and way outside my comfort zone.” And even for me, that’s more of my real house of stuff and it was still multiples past what I would have imagined. Being able to know that, “Hey I’m going to be fine,” or, “Hey you still have to perform under stress or pressure.” And the more you do that the more you train it to be like, “Hey this is okay.” And that’s how you keep growing and keep advancing. 

Hannah: That is all really good advice. It could be like a mini-book. ‘Dan’s Lessons on Creativity.’

Dan: They’ve got ‘Danisms’ but there’s probably a ton of stuff. 

Hannah: I really like the one you said to about falling a lot and being okay with failing. I know at DuBose we have an initiative called “The Right to Fail.” So basically, if you’re doing something and it’s still in line with our core values and you failed, at least you were trying. That’s something that we are big on. 

Next, I like to do some rapid-fire questions just to get to know you better and to end the conversation on a fun night. What’s your favorite place you’ve ever traveled to? 

Dan: That’s tough. I mean everything I like involves snow. We snowshoed ten miles in Rocky Mountain National Park this winter. That was magical. So somewhere deep in Rocky Mountain National Park was really awesome. And then, probably also when I was coming back from Calgary, I was driving from Golden British Columbia on the Trans Canada Highway. I drove through Lake Louise, Banff and back to Calgary where I was flying out of the next morning. I drove through Banff which is kind of known as one of the most beautiful places on Earth. There was a full moon coming up on this side, the sun was setting on this side, I had no service for 30 minutes. There was nobody on the interstate. I had just gone from some of the biggest, sketchiest mountains. There were inbound slides while I was there, avalanche danger was really high. I had done some stuff that was well beyond what I thought I was capable of doing and driving through and being like, “Yep.” I had never been moved to tears just by beauty. The mountains are ginormous and awesome. 

Hannah: That’s where I need to go on my next trip. 

What are you currently reading or listening to? 

Dan: I need to do a better job of reading. I’m horrible about reading. I read a fair amount of design blogs and things like that. But listening to, Chemical Brothers, Anderson .Paak. That’s some of it. And then like I said there’s The Snowboard Project; it’s a podcast. And yeah, they talk a little bit about snowboarding but a lot of it turns into kind of some of this. Like how does that affect you in your career and lifestyle and things going forward? And that’s a solid play when I’m driving. 

Hannah: What’s the coolest thing you’re working on right now? 

Dan: I just finished “Up.” Some branding and identity for a line of engine motors, which is pretty sweet freelance stuff. I mainly took it because it’s freelance, or ‘sidelance,’ as I kind of call it. Because it’s a side hustle. I don’t need to take jobs, which is great. But if there’s something that fills that passion bucket. So that was pretty sweet. It was for a line of GM crate motors. Not for General Motors, but for some boat motors; that’s pretty sweet. So being able to brand an entire line of motors and do some custom typography. And it was cool because I took some of the research that we do ‘a-la-Krumware’ side of things and a lot of that design thinking into the approach and kind of created something that was fitting and fun.

Hannah: What’s the best advice you’ve ever received? 

Dan: I don’t know if it’s necessarily advice but someone said that you’re in three stages: you’re either going into a storm, currently in a storm, or you’re coming out of a storm.” And I remember thinking about that after my first real design job and trying to figure out where do I go next? And where does this take me? I was just trying to get my career started and whatnot. And being able to think of things in those terms helped. Especially with that sense of always evolving, always growing, always getting better. And that like, “Hey I just got out of a storm. Okay, I need to prep for the next one.” And how do I do that? Whether it’s financially, whether it’s personally, whether it’s a physical storm and I need to do some on my house so that my front yard doesn’t flood. It’s a really good way of framing it. 

Hannah: And then my last rapid-fire question is who inspires you? 

Dan: That’s a good one too. You could probably ask me that on any given day and it would probably change a little bit. But probably my parents for sure. Everybody worked hard, so I have super-strong respect for anybody that busts their ass and doesn’t do it for show or doesn’t do it for glory, and really does it for their passion. My mom worked in a Nathan’s Hotdog in New York to pay for nursing school. My dad is extremely hardworking and just he and his parents migrated from Poland in the 80s and have dealt with plenty of struggles on numerous facets. I think that’s it. My parents in any fashion are a big inspiration. 

There are other industry people, like the designer Aaron Draplin. He’s a snowboarder too. But the same thing. Someone who has passion busts their tail and really loves what they do. Other people too. Sal Masekela. He’s a musician, he’s a commentator, an announcer for action sports stuff, he has a t.v. show in National Geographic. And then another guy is probably Jimmy Chin. He’s fairly known for being a filmmaker, videographer, cinematographer and has done a couple of things but is also a mountain climber and an adventurer. He’s done a couple of big movies with Alex Honnold about him free soloing El Cap. in Yosemite and did all of the filming. So not only is Alex Honnold free soloing El Capitan without a rope but then Jimmy Chin is also rock climbing alongside him and filming him. He’s done a couple of other things in the snow industry too. So that kind of stuff is pretty sweet. 

Hannah: That is all of my questions. Where can people go to learn more about Krumware and also your sidelancing if you want to plug that? 

Dan: Krumware, our website is krum.io. My Instagram handle is probably the best. It’s a lot more adventure-driven but some design stuff: @ddanmarino and thedanmarino.com. 

Hannah: Awesome. Well, thanks for being here. 

Dan: Cool, yeah for sure I appreciate it. 
Hannah: And thanks y’all for being here and tuning in today. I hope you enjoyed this conversation I know I did. It was super interesting stuff and I think this was probably one of my favorite DWGTV interviews we’ve done yet. I hope y’all enjoyed it as well. Give it a like, give it a share if you did and be sure to follow along with us on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram to find out when we’ll be going live next. We hope to see you again soon and we’ll talk to you then. Bye guys.

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